Charismatics & non-charismatics in the same microchurch?

In this video, I explore the dynamics between charismatics and non-charismatics within the same church setting, especially focusing on small, intimate gatherings like house churches. Drawing from my own experiences and reflections, I discuss the differing beliefs about spiritual gifts, how these differences play out in larger versus smaller church settings, and the importance of fostering respectful, thoughtful conversations. I believe there is great potential for God-honoring unity and spiritual maturity when we choose relationship over doctrinal differences.

00:00 Introduction: Can Charismatics and Non-Charismatics Coexist?
00:22 Understanding Charismatics and Non-Charismatics
00:56 Beliefs and Practices: Gifts of the Holy Spirit
02:48 Interpretations and Divisions
04:16 Tolerance in Large Churches
06:29 Challenges in Tiny Church Settings
07:25 Creating a Safe Space for Dialogue
08:23 The Value of Diverse Conversations
09:29 Practical Examples and Encouragement
11:44 Conclusion: Pursue this!

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT
What do you think? Can charismatics and non-charismatics exist as brothers and sisters in the same tiny church, the same micro church, the same house church? Will it be helpful or will it be hurtful?  

This is continuing my thoughts that I've been exploring in recent videos about conservatives and liberals. Now, whereas that deals with a sense of potential heresy and apostasy versus faithfulness and orthodoxy, when we talk about charismatics and non-charismatics, I want to pull that into the category of Bible believing, Orthodox, Protestant, even Evangelical leaning Christians. 

Within the church we have charismatics and non-charismatics. Charismatics would say that all the gifts of the Holy Spirit are still in practice today, still being given by the Holy Spirit today. This would be everything from teaching and prophecy to tongues and healing. And if the charismatics would have this ongoing view, this open ended view, unending view of the gifts of Holy Spirit, then you would have the non-charismatics that would have a cessationist view. Not entirely all the time, but they would say gifts, the sign gifts, what some have called the sign gifts, like tongues and, and miraculous things like healing and all that, and prophecy that they were a part of the apostolic era. And they might see prophecy as something that still, uh, exists in a different form. Someone who communicates the truths of God by opening up scripture or whatever. But they wouldn't say that prophecy, the ability to see the future or to speak directly from God, to hear directly from God and to give voice to what you've heard, as a gift of the Holy Spirit that still is alive today. And the gift of tongues -- whether you call that the ability to speak the truths of God in a language you've never learned that other people can understand, or if you'd see it more as an ecstatic gift, an utterance that is meant as Paul talks in first Corinthians 14, that is meant to edify the spirit, so praying in a language of angels, first Corinthians 13, to pray in a language of angels that edifies my spirit, but others don't understand what is said. And then God gives interpretation, the gift of interpretation to others. -- Non-charismatics would say that that gift of tongues, in both senses disappeared with the apostolic age. And interestingly, when we talk about apostolic age, then there's another division there where the non-charismatics would talk about the apostolic age as what ended with the apostles, the 11 and then 12th apostle of Jesus, that apostolic age when the church was being born and the charismatics would say that apostling is still a gift given by God, an assignment, an anointing given by God.  

Within the non-charismatics, you have people who would just read the Bible literally, and some would read the Bible, uh, studiously, and they would approach it very scientifically by that. I mean, I don't mean science as in earth and nature and stuff, but scientifically as in applying their mind to understand the words in a literary sense, and understand what is being said from that perspective, applying their mind to it. And in the charismatic sense you would have people turning to the scriptures also -- Gordon Fee stands out as someone who was a Pentecostal thinker, a theologian. He stands out because it's a little bit of an oxymoron within Pentecostal circles. Uh, if that's offensive, just let it be. That's fine. Uh, but within the charismatic circles, you would have people who turn to scriptures to receive inspiration and to read them with special understanding provided by the Holy Spirit. 

When you have charismatics and non-charismatics in the same church --. Now think about big church. If you have them in the same big church, there's just plenty of opportunity to be quiet about the things that you don't agree with. And so there are non-charismatics who will go to a charismatic church because of relationship. People that they know and like are there. And so they sit there and, and if they're polite and if they're nice, they fold their arms or whatever and they, they smile when people are going through all their antics. I'm trying to voice that as they would experience it. Going through all the hoopla and the antics of, of worshiping God in this very charismatic, animated sense. And so they go, they tolerate it even if they aren't crazy about it, even if they don't agree with it. And on the other side you have charismatics I believe probably even more charismatics who go to non-charismatic churches because they have tasted a seriousness, a sobriety with which the scriptures are opened that was lacking for them -- I'm speaking anecdotally. Even my own experience as someone who had a charismatic experience, but ended up in a non-charismatic church. Anecdotally, they, they end up in a non-charismatic church because they appreciate the seriousness, the sobriety, the thoughtfulness with which scripture is approached and preached. And so there is a desire for that deeper theology.  

So you end up with a lot of charismatics in non-charismatic churches. And they can exist very, kindly there. And everyone sort of knows that they're the person who will sort of slip up a hand. They're "the charismatic" and stuff. Which can be a little bit silly, but it's just just how it is.  

Now in a big church the charismatics and non-charismatics can coexist. They can get along. And even if there's a sense that it's not forever. Like a charismatic might think one day I'll get back to church where they really know how to worship God. Or a non-charismatic in a charismatic church might think one day my Charismatic friends here will understand what I like about the non-charismatic church and they'll follow me to a more thoughtful deeper church. Again speaking colloquially there.  

In the larger church they get along. If you put that into a church of eight or six or twelve or fifteen, and put it in someone's living room, and open up the scriptures and start to read it, it can create some tension. Because in that setting, you know by the look in someone's eyes whether they're just tolerating. You know, by the little shake of the head, when they just disagree with what's being said. You can tell when they're being quiet out of agreement and being quiet out of disagreement. 

And so the leader's job in that is to pull out from the people. "Okay, so what's going on in your head? I see that you're thinking something." And to create safety for that person to actually say what they think, what they've learned. And again, once we pull that out, whether, whether it's pulling out of a charismatic or non-charismatic, once you pull that out, then the challenge is to make sure that it is safe to have the conversation. 

And so the way I talk about it in the microchurch setting, the tiny church setting, the house church setting, is we want it to be a safe place where you're allowed to say the things you're not allowed to say in church. Ask the questions you're not allowed to ask in church. "Safe," meaning, we're not going to just jump on people for saying something we feel is out of line, although we will require reverence in all things that we say. At least the pursuit, the desire of reverence. If something slips out that is irreverent, we just name it and go back to the pursuit of reverence in the things that we say and call out and question.  

Can charismatics and non-charismatics exist in a church that meets in someone's living room or around their dinner table? 

I think they can.  

I would even say that it's better that that church is better when it has those conversations and those influences within it. Because within the larger church, those are the conversations that are left unaddressed. We tend to identify by tribe. We tend to segregate. We tend to just congregate in areas where people see things like we see them. 

And they say the things we like and they let us say the things we like. And so we tend to congregate in that area and it leaves a lot of the conversations polarized. Just like in the world where we polarize over politics and things. I think it's better if we pull together and have the kind considerate conversations, not demonizing someone for thinking differently than us and not heralding someone just because they happen to think the same as us. But always coming together and saying, let's open up the scriptures and let's devote ourselves to the apostles teachings. Let's open up the scriptures and read them. Let them say everything they say and make sure we don't make them say anything that they don't say. Let's devote ourselves to that.  

Now, if you are in a group that has -- and we have them in our x242 network; We have churches that that have the full on Baptist that has everything memorized and we have the word of faith charismatic that really flows in the realm of the Spirit, and both of them do so in good character with kindness and consideration. I wish I could put all of you into a meeting where those people are present and listen to how they talk about it.  

What I've noticed part of the health of how they get along is when they have to say something that they understand does not reflect the view of the group, they'll say it like, "This is what I think. I think the Holy Spirit is saying such and such. Now this is just what I think, but I think the Holy Spirit is wanting to do this." And it gives everyone permission to listen without having to go, the Holy Spirit didn't say it. And they can say, "Okay, I hear that's what you think." And someone else can say, "Now this is, this is what I think. I think the scriptures are just saying, plainly, that this, this, this, and this. This is what I think."  

Now that is not -- now when I went to high school one of my teachers said, "Don't say 'I think.' When you're writing, don't say 'I think.' We know that's what you think because you're saying it." But I think it's best to say "I think."  

Now, if you're trying to win a debate just plow ahead. But if you're trying to earn someone's heart and trying to mutually discern something go ahead and say "I think." And then when you lean into things you can say, well, why do you think that? And someone can say, well, I think it because, uh, this is how I was raised. Or one day I had a powerful experience in the Holy Spirit and it just changed how I see things. Or I used to think I was baptized in the Holy Spirit and then I studied scriptures and I just saw it differently and I started to see some of the excesses in the charismatic church and I realized that that wasn't everything that represented the fullness of the Holy Spirit. Certainly not the fruit of the Holy Spirit.  

And so we can have those conversations in a way that is thoughtful. That's considerate. That's kind. I believe it's good for charismatics and non-charismatics to exist together, pursuing God, devoting themselves to the apostle's teaching, to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer in the same tiny church that meets around the dinner table and in the living room. 

Pursue it. Open your heart to it and see what God wants to do.
​Amen. 

Mission Update & Prayer

We arrived in Canby, Oregon last week, and set aside several days to connect with family. It has been sweet. We are blessed.

I've been looking forward to my time here, as I get to spend three weeks connecting with church leaders and others. Please pray for Trevor, Chris, Josh, Adam, Daniel, and Tim, all currently serving the Lord in various church settings. Pray for fruitful conversations, for the Lord's clear leading, and for strength and wisdom as they serve.

​Also pray for my conversations with people not currently in fellowship with other believers. Some have left the faith. Others are new to the faith but not yet connected. For obvious reasons I don't want to name them here, but if you'll pray for them by their first initial, God will know! Pray for J., M., D., A., L., and B.

Thank you!